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My car buying story: 2016 Fiesta ST vs. 2016 GTI S

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#1
Hey everybody, I've been around the forums for a couple months now learning and gathering opinions etc. I want to share my car buying story with you all and I'll try to make my review of both and why I chose what I did. So background story: I am a commercially rated pilot who's currently going back to school for engineering as I work at Chrysler FCA Proving Grounds doing test driving/Event Coordination. I own a 2007 GTI, 91 Miata turbo/track project car, and a 94 Chrysler LHS winter beater. The GTI was full bolt-ons and K04 turbo at about ~320WHP. After about 20K miles on the big turbo I randomly threw a rod while cruising on cruise control at highway speeds. I had it shutdown/ignition off before it even threw a CEL. Anyways it was cheaper to sell it than to buy a new shortblock and rebuild etc so I was in the market for a new car.

What I was looking for was:
-Below 25K budget
-Newish with a warranty
-Newish meaning usually more reliable than a used car
-Fun to drive
-Preferably turbo
-Winter drive-able (FWD/AWD preferred)
-A nice place to be everyday
-Straight-line Fast/Touring car feel would be nice
-Manual is a must because I'm not a girly man
-Cars will be modded so a strong aftermarket would be nice

I test drove everything possible and here's some options that I kicked out:
2016 Mustang Ecoboost: Out of budget after I optioned it out
2015 BRZ/FRS: Drove great but it was slow as balls and a terrible place to be everyday (Noisy, plastics everywhere, Not very tune-able without aftermarket FI)
2015 Focus ST: I have a lot of miles in my buddy's ST. Great cars but for the same price or less in some cases you can get a MK7 GTI which is a much better car in general. In addition the Fiesta is considerably more fun to drive in my honest opinion.
2015 WRX: Much improved over the last generation as far as quality goes. Very quick and fun. Still light years behind VW/Audi quality and interior materials. Stock tuning is awful, I mean laughably awful. It would need a tune day 1. Ugly as sin. Not my favorite shifter and harsh clutch.

It came down to the Fiesta ST or the MK7 GTI. Here's my first impressions of both:

1. Fiesta ST: The was the first one I drove. My buddy had to drop his Focus ST off for a recall so we just test drove one while we were there. (He also works at Ford so I get the friends and family discount). It is rainy cats and dogs today but we were given the keys with very few questions asked. The salesman did not go with us. When I got it is was clear the car is small, but not surprisingly so. I don't have a family and it's really only the weekends carting friends around that I even need 4 seats. Backseat room was actually quite good. There's not too many winding roads by the dealership so we found an industrial park where I could throw her around a bit. Being the Friday after Thanksgiving the park was completely empty. I pretty much ripped on it for a while. The power was good, honestly very good. There's cars that are faster than they feel, and there's cars that feel faster than they are and this one was definitely the latter. It feels quick and I think the poor 0-60 time is because of it's way too short gearing (3 shifts needed to hit 60). I turned the traction control off and it was a joke. It is very cold and rainy here and the traction was laughable. Less traction than my K04 GTI had. I believe this was down to the 205 all-season tires and I will take another test drive with the summer tires to confirm. It spins 1-3 with no issues. I continued to throw it around and boy does it handle. It's playful and wants to be tossed around. It oversteers too... a lot. It will do lift off oversteer on command and it was an absolute blast. The tires really did feel like I was on ice though but that just made it even more fun. Hitting the limits of a car is much more fun then being well within the limits. The Ford sync 3 is actually quite a good interface, and everything that you touch feels great including the shifter and clutch. The downsides were the economy interior. It's a fiesta, and you can certainly feel where they saved the money. All in all, it's a cheap car that is a blast to drive and puts fun in front of everything else. Price was $21,000 before haggling, and $23,000 for a loaded blue one.

2. MK7 GTI: We went to the VW dealership and unfortunately they didn't have one in the spec I wanted (Base S 6MT, or Base S w/ PP 6MT). Fortunately they actually got one delivered during my test drive. I ended up taking a loaded SE w/ 6MT out on the test drive. The salesmen went with us which was a big negative for me, but I understand it was a more expensive car etc. Anyways it was still raining balls outside but we drove the exact same route in order to keep things consistent. The difference was immediately noticeable. The GTI is a better car in literally every quantifiable way. It feels like a more expensive car and the ride was better than the ST. The touch points were high quality and the interior is not only bigger, but an overall better place to be. The clutch feels good and the shifter feels decent, nothing to write home about but a Dieselgeek will fix that. When I hit it, it became clear that the GTI is more powerful. It's much faster than the Fiesta and the new Gen 3 is a great motor. Power everywhere with very little lag across the rev range. I didn't get to hoon it as much but basically it felt like the same dynamics as my MK5 but just improved. Honestly I think the only downside was it wasn't as playful as the Fiesta. It is also more expensive but not by too much. The bigger reason why I am hesitate is what I'll explain below. The price was $26,000 for the base S BUT with the awesome $1,500 discount and the $500 SCCA discount it comes out to $24,000 before haggling.

Second Impression/Long test drive:

1. Fiesta ST Round 2:

It's the same car in the dry. Just an absolute blast to drive. In the dry it hooked up a bit better. The main difference of this drive that I found was the shifter and clutch. They are excellent. Probably the easiest shifting unit I have driven in a long long time and they give you the confidence to quick shift and power-shift only minutes after you step in the car for the first time. Once again I found that it feels faster than I know it is. Honestly, I think it feels faster than the GTI even though I know it isn't. It still handled like a dream being very tail happy but was lacking in total mechanical grip (Would be fixed with 225's). The 1.6 sounds a bit better too. This time I was able to focus on the details more and the interior between the two cars are completely in a different league. Even the steering wheel, while nice, was much cheaper and this was clear this time around.

2. GTI Round 2 (Base, 6MT)

I gotta say, going out on my own saved the GTI. They had the configuration I wanted this time so I was able to see exactly the one I would buy. I drove my brothers MK6 there and it's actually pretty crazy to see how much the cars change in just one generation. Anyways, the plaid seats are comfortable and well supported. The infotainment system seems okay at best, but the interface is nice and quick. I drove this right after I drove the Fiesta and my brothers MK6 and the difference in interior quality is absurd. Minus the gauge and infotainment center bezel, I think you would have a tough time finding any touchable hard plastic. It's just a nicer place to be. I got to really rip on it this time since it was nice out. The power is good, but truly it feels slower than the ST (I know my mind is playing tricks on me because it is significantly faster). Shifts are decent but just like on my MK5 I think there is too little feel/communication in the clutch pedal. On some twisty roads the car felt great with a smoother ride than the ST. Again I still think the ST actually handles much better or at least more to my preference but the GTI is still amazing compared to the previous gens. I really want to feel a PP car but they didn't have one sadly. The power is good but I was surprised at how much more lag there was than than old K03 turbos. It actually felt like very similar lag to my K04. The car just looks great too. Funny story too... The winding road I take goes by a Hotel and I turn around in a business lot right after that. There was a young guy maybe ~25 walking out to his car and his head turned on a swivel when he saw me coming around the corner. So I turned around and he's actually on the sidewalk just waiting for me to go by, so I rip it and pass him while he's giving me 2 thumbs up haha. Kinda weird since usually these cars don't attract attention but that lad was loving it. My closing thoughts was "Why the hell does any person need any other car than this?"

So I bought the GTI. Here is the prices:

So I figured out how much they should be before haggling:
Fiesta ST: $20,380
GTI: $23,500

(That's after incentives and rebates).

So that's my review of each. I originally thought I was going to get the Fiesta for several reasons. It was much more fun to drive, and a LOT of ST tuners are local which would be really cool to just drive by after work and pickup parts whenever I get the itch. I chose the GTI because it's a better place to be in general and the incentives were crazy good. Now my conclusion is that I made the right choice for ME since I already have a car for pure fun. BUT if I were to only have one it would be the Fiesta ST, Hands-down. Figured Id post my story, and maybe I'll pick up a FiST when they are more available used to replace the old Chrysler. Thanks for reading this wall of text. Cheers
 


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#2
Nice reviews and I agree with everything you described. I was pretty much in the same boat as you and ended up with the Fiesta because I was shopping the month the MK7 came out in 2014 and there were zero deals to be had. Congrats on the new ride. I hear a tune on an MK7 makes them ridiculous in a straight line.
 


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Boulder
#3
Great write up. I was in a similar boat but looking at the PP GTI. It was a great car and on so many levels should be the logical choice over the FiST. However, I couldn't get over the toss-ability, lightness, and quirkiness of the FiST. Holistically, the GTI is a better car, but since we have a new Bimmer in our house, I went for the immature choice.

Either way, great decision.

Enjoy the GTI:)
 


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Arlington, VA
#4
Great write-up. I was making exactly the same decision last year, but ended up with the FiST, mostly because it was my first new car and I wanted as small of a payment as possible and lower maintenance costs. Also, I put the fun factor above all else. I do love the GTI's interior, but considering the shit I was driving before, the FiST is still a big upgrade. I don't need to impress anyone or haul a family around. As long as it gets me from A to B and puts a smile on my face, I am content. That said, there's a decent chance I end up in a GTI at some point if/when I decide to grow up.
 


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#5
Did you happen to look into incentives/haggling on a Golf R at all?
 


OP
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Thread Starter #6
Great write-up. I was making exactly the same decision last year, but ended up with the FiST, mostly because it was my first new car and I wanted as small of a payment as possible and lower maintenance costs. Also, I put the fun factor above all else. I do love the GTI's interior, but considering the shit I was driving before, the FiST is still a big upgrade. I don't need to impress anyone or haul a family around. As long as it gets me from A to B and puts a smile on my face, I am content. That said, there's a decent chance I end up in a GTI at some point if/when I decide to grow up.
Great write up. I was in a similar boat but looking at the PP GTI. It was a great car and on so many levels should be the logical choice over the FiST. However, I couldn't get over the toss-ability, lightness, and quirkiness of the FiST. Holistically, the GTI is a better car, but since we have a new Bimmer in our house, I went for the immature choice.
Either way, great decision.
Enjoy the GTI:)
Thanks guys. I'm still very happy about my decision but every once and a while I do see a FiST and wonder how the other side would have been :) If I didn't have my Miata I would be in a FiST right now I think.

Nice reviews and I agree with everything you described. I was pretty much in the same boat as you and ended up with the Fiesta because I was shopping the month the MK7 came out in 2014 and there were zero deals to be had. Congrats on the new ride. I hear a tune on an MK7 makes them ridiculous in a straight line.
Yep. Honestly if it wasn't for dieselgate I would be in a FiST right now. The deals were just too good to pass up. $500 Below invoice for SCCA member, $1,500 off instantly for conquest, $500 off for cash sale. Mine has like a Stage .5 plug and play tune (Jb1, like the BMW's) and it's ridiculous. Stage 2 which is just a tune and a downpipe put these cars at ~330whp and ~380wtq which brings them deep into the 12's and there's a Stage 2 guy with stock motor mounts and cat-back running 11.7's. It's fast, really fast.

Did you happen to look into incentives/haggling on a Golf R at all?
Yes sir I did. They had all the same incentives but our dealership was all sold out of 6MT R's. The DSG is a big no-go for me. I have been in one at work though and I would do some pretty crazy things for one. Those with just tune are hitting 0-60 in 3.7 seconds. I was pushing my budget as is with the 25K and going through school again has really put a toll on my money so I figured it was best to stick with the cheaper ones :(
 


OP
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Thread Starter #7
So update after 10,000 miles... The GTI's long gears are killing me. It's more geared like a Corvette than a Golf and it's taking a lot of the fun out of driving. (Second gear goes to almost 75 mph). My commute/life has changed and now I do a lot more stop and go traffic driving so the car doesn't really fit well anymore. You need such a long stretch of road to get into the power-band for more than a couple seconds. Sure it's great for putting down awesome 1/4 mile times, but it ruins a lot of the fun for me.

In addition, although the GTI has proven to be a great track car, it's long gearing makes it a pain in the ass to AutoX. It feels like you are between gears (Too slow for first, too fast for second etc.). There's also no good brake pad options for the base Non-Performance Pack option. The only thing we can use is EBC yellows which are lackluster at best compared to a compound like HPS + or Carbotech XP10/8 etc. The last pet peeve is more about me then the car but tinkering with things is my hobby. I've been in the VW modding world for so long that everything seems so stale. Same mods, same tuners etc. I just want a change of pace to a new modding scene where the tuning and companies are completely different.

It's truly an incredible car but I don't know if it's the right car for me right now in my life. Later I can see myself in another GTI or R, but I think I'm going to try to get in a FiST and use the extra money for X37 and other mods.
 


LilPartyBox

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#8
Haha wasn't expecting the story to end like that. Like many here, I came from VWs and crossed shopped it with Fiesta. For me it was just a numbers game. I didn't even test drive the gti. It was about $50 more than I wanted to spend a month so FiST it is. No regrets here. Done think you'll regret it either.
 


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#9
I love the 10,000 mile post. I was also internet shopping the GTI, but there were none locally to me to go and look at or test drive. there were 2 identical FiSTs at a dealer near me so that's where I went. Still never drove a GTI but I'm happy with the FiST.
 


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#10
I think I may be the only one who doesn't like the GTI. I respect them for what they are, but they don't do much for me. All my friends had GTIs/R32s/GLIs and we all went to the car shows for the past 10 years. Actually I just went to the CULT CLASIC show yesterday where my buddy won 1st for his class. Sure, they can be fast but they don't feel better in anyway but power (imo), and not by much unless it's big turbo.

I kinda enjoy our interior, the Recaros go a long way. I was just thinking about this yesterday because I went to dinner in an RS7 and noticed that my stereo and my seats in my fiesta are better than this $110k luxury touring car, actually it's better than in the R8 too. Of course Audi/Vw uses better materials than the fiesta but it's not a bad place to be in comparison.

In my opinion the driving mechanics of the FIST allows it to punch above its class in certain instance. I only wish it was 2.0. But the more I mod it the more I realize the high torque/ low hp is what makes it fun. Having a smooth progressive top end is so boring, I enjoy the twisties.

Anyway, I hope you find a car that fits your needs better.
 


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#11
Oddly enough, it was down to a GTI, FoST, or FiST for me. The FoST felt like a plasticky GTI, so it got eliminated early on. The GTI was certainly the faster car, but the little Fiesta just felt more alive. On top of that, I've had endless nightmares with previous VW's. So many electrical gremlins!!!! I chose the Fiesta ST, but can certainly respect the GTI.
 


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#12
As a long time and former VW owner, all I can say is VW reliability blows.

The entire time I drove my GTI all I thought about was how soon my next mechanical failure would be. Kind of takes the fun out of a car. Plus, VW repairs are expensive and overly complicated. Hell, replacing the headlight bulb was a project.

Everytime I get in my Fiesta I have a smile on my face. A much better experience than waiting for the check engine to start flashing.
 


pelotonracer2

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#13
Yep. I came out of a 2011 Genpoo MS3. I also shopped the GTI and went with the FiST. I like it so much I will pay the $11,000 balloon payment at the end of the lease and keep it as my daily driver. In stage 3 form the FiST is perfect, still gets decent fuel mileage and a hoot to drive. Only problem I've had with it was the HVAC "flapper" went out and I had it replaced under warranty three weeks ago. 34,000 miles.

I will be getting a 2017 Chevrolet Camaro ZL1 when they are released in October or November so I am done modding the FiST. It will be odd parking a Chevy next to the Ford... lol
 


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#14
Oddly enough, it was down to a GTI, FoST, or FiST for me. The FoST felt like a plasticky GTI, so it got eliminated early on. The GTI was certainly the faster car, but the little Fiesta just felt more alive. On top of that, I've had endless nightmares with previous VW's. So many electrical gremlins!!!! I chose the Fiesta ST, but can certainly respect the GTI.
This pretty much sums up how I ended up in a FiST exactly. My wife had a GTI that lasted forever when she was in school, so of course she lobbied hard for the GTI. She conveniently forgets the obscene amounts of money we've spent keeping every other VAG car we've owned running and road-worthy over the years since. That said, the new GTI is bitchin and the temptation was strong.
 


OP
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Thread Starter #15
Update: Still don't regret making the switch.

Just hit 40K miles and I've literally only put fuel and oil in. It just keeps trucking along with no issues. Average MPG is an indicated 34.2 MPG on X37 (93 octane). Just an incredible car, cheap interior and terrible infotainment and all.
 


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#16
I went from a MK6 GTI to a FiST, and I haven't looked back. The GTI is faster in a straight line, had a better interior, and tons of aftermarket and VAGCOM tweaks, but it's reliability was garbage. The water pump had been replaced twice, replaced timing chain tensioner (engine rattle came back 6 months later), misfire and fall on its face every now and then (even with R8 coils), driver rear quarter showed signs of early rust, etc. It was my first VW and possibly my last.

That said, I find way more enjoyment driving my FiST. It's not as fast, the interior is not as nice, but it is fun as hell on the back roads! Puts a smile on my face every time. The Recaro seats are second to none, they are a absolute treat. I definitely plan on keeping this car for 4-5 years, maybe more.
 




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